Are you still trapped in the LAW dispensation?

The following is a forum discussion with someone who is clearly still trapped in the law dispensation. If you find yourself with this mindset today, then your views of the Bible and Christianity need to be adjusted as God is not working under the law today, He is working by grace. 

Please note that I am not shooting down the law or the administration depicted in the Gospels. In actual fact, the person below has a very good understanding of the law dispensation, but what I am saying is that this dispensation is not in operation today. Today is the dispensation of GRACE, which is administered in a VERY DIFFERENT way!

The purpose of this post is to compare law vs. grace. Comparisons, or discussions between these administrations can be a great way to learn both sides and properly discover how God is administering His will in the world today.

Let's look at the discussing, paying close attention to the differences between law and grace. 

LAW ARGUMENT

A “kingdom” is a government ruled by a King and HIS Laws. The first FIVE BOOKS in the Bible reveal how a person should “live”.

Do you advocate keeping these Laws?

GRACE RESPONSE

The 10 commandments given to Israel by God can be seen as the moral laws that all humanity should abide by. However, the sin nature of man will always be contrary to these. Naturally I would advocate keeping these laws, but I also know that it is impossible to keep all 10, not even speaking of the extended 613 laws in the Talmud. If you fail in one, you fail in all.

The bible tells us that the law, although perfect, and good, and to be obeyed, was in essence to be a school master to point us to Christ.

Gal.3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Only Christ could keep the law. The word says about Jesus,

Matt.5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Because Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf, we can be justified before God by the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. In essence, this abolishes the law for us in this grace dispensation. Hence, Paul writes,

Rom.6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. … 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

So, there is one law that trumps all these laws, the law of love, as both Jesus and Paul attest to,

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

LAW ARGUMENT continued...

When the NATION of Israelites were at the base of Mount Sinai, in ARABIA, the CREATOR יהוה (YHWH) made a Contract with the people, that… IF … they were to keep the Ten Commandments and all that pertained to them, to Govern the people by these Laws… they could have the Land where the Tribes of Canaan was located.

AND…. if they did the same thing that the Canaanites did, (sacrificing their children to Molech) …. they in turn will be evicted from the Land.

They agreed.

Those Laws are still in effect and guaranteed “Judaism that follows the made-up Oral Laws” and those who call themselves “Christians”, rebel just like Satan and “his” cohorts DO.

You said…. “Only Christ could keep the law. “

He was a human being no different than you or me but had perfect CHARACTER and He qualified to being the “sacrifice” that would make it possible to get “immortality”. He set the example. He was taught the same LAWS and set a perfect example what to do.

You quoted…. “24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The “LAW” that this is referring to is the animal sacrifices that were instituted because the people refused to keep the Commandments. The Creator יהוה (YHWH) wanted to teach these people how expensive SIN is. It was the “male” bull that was required, and they could wait for a lifetime to get the best “breeder” …. but that was the one the Creator יהוה (YHWH) wanted. After all this was to show what HE was going to do, and that was SACRIFICE HIS only Begotten Son יהושע (YHUsha). It is the Creator יהוה (YHWH) that used HIS only begotten Son as a “token” to purchase humanity back from the clutches of death.

HIS Son יהושע (YHUsha) submitted to being that SACRIFICE.

The animal sacrifice for “sin”, was the “schoolmaster” to teach these people how expensive it was to…. NOT KEEP THE LAW.

You quoted…. ““17. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Absolutely…. He didn’t come to destroy the LAW…. HE came to MAGNIFY it…. fill it to the full.

You said….. “So, there is one law that trumps all these laws, the law of love, as both Jesus and Paul attest to,”

…. The 10 Commandments are the Royal Law of LOVE. The Pharisees asked the Mashiach?….

Matthew 22:37 YHUsha said unto him, you shall love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

In other words, the whole of the Old Testament known as the TeNaK.

the first Four Commandments teach how to LOVE the Creator יהוה (YHWH) and the last SIX teach how to LOVE our fellow man.

You pick the very words that hold up the LAW but twist it to say you don’t have to keep them.

The Torah wasn’t just for the Israelites, they were for all of humanity, because they teach how to LOVE.

GRACE RESPONSE continued...

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I can see that you are fluent in the Jewish faith.

I did mention that the 10 commandments are the moral laws that should govern all of humanity. I have no argument with that. If everyone did obey these 10 commands, the world would be an AMAZING place to live in! However, the sin nature of man cannot even manage these laws, so the law in effect is powerless to change the heart of man. All it can do is show us how corrupt we are and how urgently and absolutely we need a Redeemer.

My faith is not in the Jewish law, but in Christ alone. By Him alone can we receive redemption and righteousness with God. Paul teaches that Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf and imputed His righteousness to us freely if we would believe in His cross work. So, through this God-given transaction and redemption, I do not have to focus on keeping the law, though by moral standards I try to anyways. My focus is to obey the indwelling Holy Spirit and to walk by His instructions and guidance. This is all I need to focus on. Cheers

LAW ARGUMENT continued...

What in the world is a “Jewish Faith”? I have the same faith as the Jewish man, that is the Teacher of keeping the Commandments, who was crucified.

You said…. “However, the sin nature of man cannot even manage these laws, so the law in effect is powerless to change the heart of man.”

The word “heart” in Hebrew is a metaphor reference to what you “think” and you yourself control what you WANT to “think”. The choice is yours and no-one is twisting your arm. So, cutting to the “chase” of the 10 Commandments you are willing to keep the Nine. But one is always the big TEST.

Stealing is one that is always taught NOT to do. Making illicit sex is not acceptable… except today where everything goes. Any of these are choices people make and no-one twists a person’s arm to do these things.

No offense intended but it seems you're looking for a way to rebel against the Creator יהוה (YHWH)… and that HE is asking you to do the impossible thing.

There is a saying, “you can’t erase a scar but isn’t it stupid to keep getting scars????”

I would never go to a religion that says, “no you shouldn’t keep the Royal Law of Love.”

You said…. “All it can do is show us how corrupt we are and how urgently and absolutely we need a Redeemer.”

Who is the “Redeemer”, the Creator יהוה (YHWH) or HIS only begotten Son יהושע (YHUsha) (erroneously referred to as “Iesus”).

There is one Scripture that most folks read over….

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is not one human being on this globe who will make the first move. It is the Creator יהוה (YHWH) that makes the first move and is "selecting” those who can rule in HIS Government (Kingdom). If that is not the way this works, then the Messiah is a liar.

The Messiah was without sin and qualified to be the SAVING SACRIFICE. He wanted His FATHER to find another way… “but not my will but yours be done”.

Even in your New World Translation it says….

Rev. 2:7……. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the paradise of God.’

Notice what it is talking about ….YOU….. have to conquer sin. If you don’t, you wont get what is offered.

This word is used ten times. KJV says …"overcometh”. the NIV says ….victorious… and this is in reference to sin.

So, your attitude that it can’t be done, doesn’t hold water. A person needs some help to be able to do it but you have to do what the Creator יהוה (YHWH) wants you to do and that is…..

Acts 2:38 Then Kepa said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of YaHUsha the Anointed One for the removal of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Special POWER.

When and if you do this, you are going before the Creator יהוה (YHWH) and asking HIM to put the BLOOD of HIS only begotten Son on your sins to wash them away.

And note the first thing to do is repent….. which means start keeping the LAW. You will fumble like a baby trying to walk, but if you keep trying you will accomplish it.

And even when you get older, you trip and fall on your face, but then get up and keep running and you will win the Crown. Paul says the same thing but with different words.

You said….. “….My faith is not in the Jewish law”.

I’m sorry to hear that because “Christ” was a Jew of the Tribe of YaHUdah and kept the Written Laws, and not the supposed Oral Law now recorded in the Talmud.

You don’t get the “Holy Spirit” (Special POWER) if you don’t do what it says in [Acts 2:38].

GRACE RESPONSE continued...

I hope I did not offend with the term “Jewish faith”. It was more a means to say the program or dispensation of law to which belongs to Israel (the Jews).

Again, you have good comprehension on this dispensation of law. However, it is not the dispensation (or administration) in which God is operating today. All that you say is correct and valid, but it will only be in operation again in the time of Jacobs trouble, and beyond into the Millennial Kingdom.

Please understand that my posts should be understood from the view of the dispensation of grace, introduced to Paul by the risen Christ. The views and points I expressed above regarding law, love, and walking in the spirit, are all correct if one operates in this current administration of grace.

Let me use some of your points as example. In doing so, I’m not judging your doctrine. I’m simply expressing my doctrine which is in line with grace today.

You say, Notice what it is talking about ….YOU….. have to conquer sin. If you don’t, you wont get what is offered. This word is used ten times. KJV says …"overcometh”. the NIV says ….victorious… and this is in reference to sin.

This is 100% correct in the prophetic/law dispensation. But this dispensation is in hiatus until the tribulation. In the mystery/grace dispensation, which is active today, there is no need to conquer sin or endure in the faith because Christ conquered sin already for us.

Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Our works count for nothing in the context of salvation, else we are trying to merit salvation by works which cancels out grace.

Rom.11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

2 Cor.5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

However, in the law dispensation, which you are promoting, your point is 100% valid.

Another example.

You say, So your attitude that it can’t be done, doesn’t hold water. A person needs some help to be able to do it but you have to do what the Creator יהוה (YHWH) wants you to do and that is…..

Acts 2:38 Then Kepa said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of YaHUsha the Anointed One for the removal of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Special POWER.

Again, a valid point in the law dispensation. I cannot disagree with this. It is perfectly correct, BUT this is not the dispensation that is active today. Under grace, this is not the instructions we need to do to get the Spirit and the help He can provide. What is the way in grace?

Today, we need to respond to the grace gospel. We need to choose to believe in the death and burial of Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, and to believe in His resurrection to be justified before God. The instant we believe and are saved, we are made alive in spirit and the Holy Spirit indwells us and guides us in increasing sanctification, helping us in our weaknesses. In effect, we are empowered to by His indwelling presence.

You say, You don’t get the “Holy Spirit” (Special POWER) if you don’t do what it says in [Acts 2:38].

As mentioned above, we get the indwelling Spirit the moment we get saved by the grace gospel.

When the law dispensation is back in effect from the tribulation onwards, the kingdom gospel is again the valid gospel. At this time, one will need to “repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of YaHUsha the Anointed One for the removal of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Special POWER”, because this is the administration that is again in operation.

Matt.24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? ... 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Another example,

You say, When and if you do this, you are going before the Creator יהוה (YHWH) and asking HIM to put the BLOOD of HIS only begotten Son on your sins to wash them away. And note the first thing to do is repent….. which means start keeping the LAW. You will fumble like a baby trying to walk, but if you keep trying you will accomplish it.

In law, this is right. In grace this is ALREADY done.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood [notice the tense. This is already done], we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 2:13 BUT NOW [current tense, already done] in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood [we already have redemption now, not waiting for it in the future], even the forgiveness of sins: ... 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

The blood is ALREADY applied upon our heart. In grace our hearts are ALREADY righteous before God. Yes, we may fall and sin in moments of weakness or in disobedience to the indwelling Spirit, (which of course we don’t intend. Grace is no license to sin!!), but our heart remains righteous before God because of the blood of Christ.

Last example,

You say, “….My faith is not in the Jewish law”.

This is correct. I do say this! In the grace dispensation the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me. In the law dispensation, I must work for my righteousness by observing the law.

Notice, what is said about the administration of righteousness in the grace dispensation:

Rom.3:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. … 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe [the grace gospel]:

2 Cor.5:21 For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In summary. God is working in a new “grace” dispensation today. The law dispensation is not the way God is administering things today. Today there is no Jew or Gentile, we are all equal (Galatians 3:28). The preeminence of the Jews is not administered today. However, come the Millennial Kingdom, this changes again, and the Jews will be preeminent and God’s holy people once again and will be the head of all the nations operating under the new covenant and the dispensation of law again. Until this time, we need to understand and operate under the rules of the grace dispensation, whether one is a Jew or a Gentile.

LAW ARGUMENT continued...

Your teaching is from those who revolted and teaching the same thing you are. In other words you pick and choose which of the TEN commandments your going to keep but not the FOURTH. I shake my head you yourself is going to tell the Creator which of the the MORAL LAW your going to keep. SHAME on you.

We are going through “Jacob’s Trouble” right now because the people refuse to OBEY the Creator יהוה (YHWH). The interesting thing is the Messiah is going to rule according to all the Law and if people refuse to go to the Feast of Tabernacles they wont get any rain for a year and if they still revolt they will get the Plague… [Zechariah 14:17-19].

It is really stupid to say we don’t have to right now but will be forced to do this when the Messiah returns. The 120 on Shabbuot (Pentecost) kept this Feast after the Messiah was Resurrected from Death… [Acts 1:15] and they listened to the Messiah and were there Fifty Days after the Wave Sheaf Offering.

Paul kept all the Feasts and advocated keeping the Ten Commandments. How do you come up with a different Dispensation?????

“Grace” is an Unmerited Pardon for the Crime of sin and the Messiah took the DEATH PENALTY for those who enter the NEW COVENANT (Contract). If a person does not come into this “Contract” the sins are not removed. Salvation is a “process” and all parts of it must be completed…. starting with [Acts 2:38].

When the sins are removed so is the DEATH PENALTY. That doesn’t mean you can continue SINNING….

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

You are advocating people can sin if they want to, yet Paul is declaring God forbids.

Paul is writing to those who entered the New Contract (Covenant) where the DEATH PENALTY was removed… when the sins were removed. The vast majority of those who claim to be “Christians” revolt against the Creator יהוה (YHWH) and that of HIS only begotten Son יהושע, born through Miriam. These “Christians” are still under the PENALTY of DEATH. because they refuse to keep the LAW.

GRACE RESPONSE continued...

Sadly, you fail to see the “mystery” doctrine. All your comments are outside the mystery of grace through Christ. Your doctrine is true and correct, but it is specific to the doctrine for the Jews under law, which is a doctrine that is not in operation today.

Rom.11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I speak and comment from a completely different doctrine in the Word. It's a mystery as it is not prophesied in the Old Testament and the Gospels. The mystery doctrine given to Paul by the risen Christ cannot be found in any parts of the Bible except the 13-letters (epistles) that Paul wrote. This mystery doctrine is as valid as the law and the prophets. The apostle Peter tells us that Paul’s writings are valid when he says,

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul provides us this additional warning,

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

So, let me refer back to the comments in your last reply and again point to the fact that this is invalid according to the mystery doctrine of grace today.

You write: “Grace” is an Unmerited Pardon for the Crime of sin and the Messiah took the DEATH PENALTY for those who enter the NEW COVENANT (Contract). If a person does not come into this “Contract” the sins are not removed. Salvation is a “process” and all parts of it must be completed…. starting with [Acts 2:38].

The Body of Christ is not in the New Covenant. God never made a covenant with the Body of Christ. Only Israel has covenants with God. Paul writes the following pertaining to the grace doctrine for today,

Eph.2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. ... 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

We were strangers to the covenants, but now, through grace, we have been brough nigh by the blood of Christ.

Furthermore, you say, Paul is writing to those who entered the New Contract (Covenant) where the DEATH PENALTY was removed… when the sins were removed. The vast majority of those who claim to be “Christians” revolt against the Creator יהוה (YHWH) and that of HIS only begotten Son יהושע, born through Miriam. These “Christians” are still under the PENALTY of DEATH. because they refuse to keep the LAW.

Paul never wrote to anyone who entered the New Covenant. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles. The covenant is not ratified with us, but, by grace, we enjoy it’s blessings, (an indwelling Spirit and the forgiveness of sins, Ezek.36).

Besides, the New Covenant is only realized when Christ comes at His second advent and pours out His Spirit upon the remnant of Jews who fled out of Jerusalem at the defiling of the temple at the midpoint of the tribulation.

Members of the Body of Christ are not under the penalty of death. Why? Because the life that Jesus Christ lived, which fulfilled the law, was imputed freely to them that believe in the grace gospel. Our sins are nailed to the cross and we receive the righteousness of Christ and justified freely before God. The following verses confirm this,

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Paul writes over and over in his letters about the mystery. This is a body of doctrine that is not connected with Israel or their law and prophets. It was revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:5) expressly for Jews and Gentiles saved by the grace gospel into the Body of Christ. Below are some scripture references for your perusal.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Colossians 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

You and I will always be at sorts because you choose to remain under the program of law whereas I have been set free to live under grace through the cross work of Christ. These two dispensations, law and grace, are two completely separate and different programs that God had purposed within His Word and within His redemption plan. Please know that the law program is NOT in operation today. Grace is in operation today! You need to find grace through Christ and be set free from the law (Romans 6:14). Please read the epistle of Romans, and then read Galatians to gain valued insights.

God bless.